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Dressage Today Podcast: Interview with Todd Flettrich

Season 2, Episode 9

Thanks to Collegiate for sponsoring this episode. 

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Listen to co-hosts Stephanie Ruff and Aviva Nebesky share stories of their horse history, and Aviva answers a listener’s question in her segment "Ask the L."

Then Stephanie interviews international Grand Prix competitor Todd Flettrich. A native of New Orleans, Todd Flettrich is a veteran competitor and trainer at the FEI levels of dressage. He won individual gold and team silver in the 1991 North American Junior/Young Rider Championships. Years later, Flettrich’s student won the same competition two years in a row. In 2010, he rode Otto, owned by Cherry Knoll Farm, during the Alltech FEI World Equestrian Games in Lexington, KY. In 2012, Todd qualified with Otto as the alternate of the United States Dressage Team for the London Olympic Games. From being an Olympic contender to coaching some of the best riders in the world to international success, Flettrich is a veteran of the competition arena and a sought-after trainer and mentor. He resides year-round in Wellington, Fla.

Todd Flettrich Podcast Cover

Transcript

[00:00:00] Stephanie Ruff: [00:00:00] Hello, I'm Stephanie Ruff. And I'm Aviva Nebesky. We're the hosts of the dressage today podcast, where you can find us talking about anything and everything for dressage related. Our conversations span the world of dressage from leading riders to local level dressage heroes. We're talking training advice, showing tips and sharing stories to inspire your own dressage journey. So, tune in then tack up.

Welcome to the dressage today podcast sponsored by Collegiate. On today's show, we are joined by Grand Prix competitor. Todd Flettrich. Todd has overcome not one, but two life altering events, a broken back and a major heart attack. There are a lot of people out there who have had significant injuries as a result of a horse accident.

Aviva, in our first episode, you mentioned an [00:01:00] incident as an event rider that caused you to make the switch to dressage. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Aviva Nebesky: [00:01:05] I can't say that I was really an event rider. I was still a beginner rider, but we were jumping a log. So that makes it an event, right?

Stephanie Ruff: [00:01:12] Yes, it does. Absolutely

Aviva Nebesky: [00:01:14] It wasn't in an arena. It was in a field, and it didn't, fall down.

I was leasing an Appaloosa, a leopard Appaloosa named Chance, and apparently Chance didn't really like the idea of jumping very much. And as we were heading towards this log, and I have to admit that it was probably 12 inches, as we were heading towards it, chance decided that he didn't want to go over it.

And so he stopped, and I being the brave rider that I was kicked him and he just sprung straight up in the air like a deer and he jumped it and I landed on it flat on the small of my back and broke my back. yeah, so Todd and I have something in common, [00:02:00] but I'm sure that his story is much more interesting and probably more dramatic than 12-inch log in a field.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:02:06] What part of your back was broken?

Aviva Nebesky: [00:02:08] I destroyed L 4, 5 and S1.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:02:12] Oh, okay. Yeah.

Aviva Nebesky: [00:02:13] Yeah, it was bad. I went to the hospital and, it was so stereotypic of horse people. And even though I was still very new to riding, I think I had only been riding about two years at that point.

I'm lying there in the hospital bed. And the orthopedic surgeon comes in to tell me about what I had done and what was going on and what was my first question. When can I start riding? And he looked at me and he shook his head and he said, you're going to be lucky if you ever walk again, let alone ride.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:02:43] Horse people don't let things like that stop them.

Aviva Nebesky: [00:02:45] Clearly I proved them wrong because what is it? 30 years later I'm still riding and I'm on the crippled side and I've done a lot of damage. Since then that we can talk about at a later date, but [00:03:00] yeah. Lots of broken bones and lots of damage and all kinds of other stuff. But we keep on going and that's what vet wrap and bailing twine are for.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:03:08] Exactly. That's right. Throw in a little duct tape. Don't forget the duct tape

Aviva Nebesky: [00:03:12] and the duct tape. Exactly. How about you? What kind of fun stuff have you done to yourself?

Stephanie Ruff: [00:03:18] Honestly, I have been, knock on wood, throw salt over my shoulder and everything else, I have been very fortunate to never be seriously hurt on or with a horse. Certainly I've come off. I've gotten the sprains and strains and bruises and road rash, and I've had some pretty, potentially really bad accidents that I was very lucky, like in one case, the horse tripped and fell on his face.

I went one way, he flipped over, but he rolled the opposite way. So he didn't roll on top of me, I've fallen underneath horses, and I've seen their feet come down, but they didn't come down on me. They came down right next to me. So I have been super, [00:04:00] super fortunate in that I have never been badly hurt and I hope that trend continues.

Aviva Nebesky: [00:04:06] Absolutely.

But I can tell you one of the scariest things that ever happened to me, it's so funny. We get hurt on horses, but we also get hurt in very strange ways around horses. When I was working on my L, I was scribing at a schooling show, a junior young rider show and a person came down center line and she halt, salute, and her horse went straight up in the air and she fell and the horse took off.

And of course, everybody ran to the rider. So I went to the horse and it was a very windy day and he stopped in front of the tent. And I reached out with my hand and I got the right rein in my hand and the wind blew and one of the test sheets blew off the table and the horse bolted and right over me.

And I [00:05:00] looked up and all I could see was a big Chestnut belly and four shoes. And I said, this is it. This is how I die. Literally ran over me. I ended up having to have surgery to remove a blood clot in my leg. And I wasn't riding. It wasn't riding. It's not fair.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:05:24] That's still a good story though.

That's good. Yeah. And I can tell you, it's been a number of years now, I had someone doing some work on my neck, body work on my neck, and she said to me, she goes, you have a lot of old whiplash were you in a really bad car accident? And I said, no, I've never been in a car accident, but I've been tossed off of horses, drug by horses, jerked by horses, run over by it.

Everything I said that I'm not surprised. So I have the whiplash comparison of a bad car [00:06:00] accident. That was, it's been nothing more than cumulative damage by horses.

Aviva Nebesky: [00:06:06] And yet we still keep doing it. You know what they say? The definition of madness is when you keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:06:15] That's right. But no, my worst injury was when I was 16 and it was not horse related at all. I actually hyperextended my back diving into a swimming pool, which messed up my L2, L3, L4, L5 and S1 that to this day has been, it’s still a major issue with me. Unfortunately not well fortunately or not, I don't know, but it's not a riding accident, but I get to deal with the same back issues that so many of us riders have to do.

Aviva Nebesky: [00:06:46] You were very lucky that you came out of that one.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:06:49] Yes. Yeah. But it's, it happened so long ago that it, and we learned to live with these chronic sorts of things that, that we've had for a long time.

Aviva Nebesky: [00:06:58] Yeah, we do.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:06:59] And [00:07:00] Todd will be talking about both of his major challenges, and we look forward to hearing his story.

But first before that, we have another question for you, Aviva.

Aviva Nebesky: [00:07:10] Okay.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:07:12] Today's question comes from Diane. And she asks, how do you really know when you're ready to show at the next level without embarrassing yourself?

Aviva Nebesky: [00:07:25] I don't know that I'm the best person to ask that because there's myself quite a bit in the show ring.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:07:30] I think we all had once or twice in our competition days.

Aviva Nebesky: [00:07:34] Oh my goodness. It is a really good question though. What I generally say to my students is that most of us, we're not the Todds or the Adrian's or the Shannons, the incredible riders that you and I have had the pleasure to talk to over the last couple of months.

We're average people and we embarrass ourselves on a regular basis

Stephanie Ruff: [00:07:58] Not on [00:08:00] purpose.

Aviva Nebesky: [00:08:01] Not on purpose. We've all done really embarrassing things. I think the answer to that question, I tell myself the students that I figure we us mere mortals, we probably lose 50% of what we have when we enter at A. We're nervous.

We transmit our nerves to our horses. Anything that we don't have 100% under our belts feel incredibly competent and confident about becomes a little tenuous. So what I tell people is think about your confidence level. If you're riding at training level and you feel a hundred percent confident at training level, but the idea of making a 15 minute meter canter circle feels like it's a stretch for you, don't go to first level. If you feel as if a 15 meter canter circle is easy and a 10 meter trot circle is easy, but the [00:09:00] idea of getting from center line to the rail and a leg yield is too complicated for you right now that it's tenuous at best when you're schooling, probably don't do first level test 2.

Because there's a leg yield in there and you're probably not going to do it very well. If you already think you're not going to do it very well. The other rule of thumb is and I just read a fabulous article that dressage today published a few years ago with Cesar Torrente and he said basically if you're not getting consistently 65% at the level at which you're currently showing don't move up. You're not ready. You need to be scoring very comfortably in the mid sixties or even the high sixties before you think about moving up the levels. So I think Diane, the answer to your question is also dependent upon what your embarrassment level is.

Again, we talked about this a couple of podcasts ago. If you're going to a schooling show to find out where the holes [00:10:00] are, then push the envelope. If you're at a schooling show, push the envelope, try doing a test that you've just been practicing at home and see what falls apart. I find it so interesting that sometimes the things that we think are the hardest for us, that we think are going to fall apart in the show ring, actually go really well.

And it's the other things that fall apart in the show ring that we weren't expecting. So pushing yourself a little bit may embarrass you, but it may also give you some additional information to help you with your schooling. I talk about the connective tissue of a test. So many people learn the movements of the test, and they can do a shoulder-in, or they can do a leg yield or they can do a trot lengthening.

But what they don't have is the connective tissue, the preparation that you need to do that in a test setting, because riding something at home, when you have all the time in the world to prepare and then to bail on the movement if you're not ready and to [00:11:00] re-prepare is not at all the same as doing it in the show ring, when you gotta do it now and you don't get a do over.

And oh, by the way, did I mention that you're nervous? And oh, by the way, did I mention that for the first time ever you're riding in the rain because you have an indoor arena and when it rains, you go inside, but this show is outside and it's raining and your horse doesn't like it. We all embarrass ourselves.

It's part of showing. My very first ever horse show, my horse spooked at A before we went into the arena and took out the chain of the entire long side and half the short side before the judge rang the bell. And I survived to continue and have another day. So Diane, go out, try it. Be brave. If nothing else horses make us humble.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:11:53] Oh, they do. They always do. And yep. That's that is very sound advice once again, [00:12:00] Aviva. We appreciate your input. And if you, our listeners, have a question about showing or judging, feel free to email me at sruff@equinenetwork.com or reach out on Dressage Today's social media.

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A native of New Orleans, Todd Flettrich is a veteran competitor and trainer at the FEI levels of dressage. He won individual gold and team silver in the 1991 north American junior young rider championships. Years later, Flettrich's student won the same competition two years in a row. In 2010, he rode Otto, owned by Cherry Knoll Farm, during the Alltech FEI world equestrian games in Lexington, Kentucky. In [00:14:00] 2012, Todd qualified with Otto as the alternate of the United States dressage team for the London Olympic games. From being an Olympic contender to coaching some of the best riders in the world to international success, Flettrich is a veteran of the competition arena and a sought-after trainer and mentor. He resides year-round in Wellington, Florida.

Thank you Todd so much for joining us today. At first, I'm curious, how did you get interested in horses and in dressage?

Todd Flettrich: [00:14:33] I was raised in Louisiana, and we moved just outside of New Orleans and Mandeville Louisiana.

And I had a neighbor that was a dressage rider, and her name is Sue Malone Casey, and she's actually a judge living in Texas. And she asked me if I would like to work at her farm on the weekends in exchange for lessons. We started with that. She actually taught me everything from parts of the horse, to the tack, [00:15:00] how to care for them.

And then also the riding part came along. She was a great influence on me.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:15:07] You mentioned her, but along your journey, have you had any mentors or people that really influenced your riding?

Todd Flettrich: [00:15:14] I'd I would say Sue Malone Casey. Absolutely. She inspired me. First of all, she was a very tiny lady and she had very big horses and that was impressive.

She was very dedicated and a super teacher. Robert Dover became my idol because obviously at that time he was riding in the Olympics and he was one our top riders at that time. And, but. Foremost is Jessica Ransehousen. She is a three-time Olympian. She was like, she's not only my mentor, but she was like my mother, she brought me the farthest in dressage and really is a wonderful lady and very, very dedicated to the sport [00:16:00] and amazing that in 1960 and 1964, and she went to the Olympics and then again in 1988. So she really was my inspiration.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:16:11] So those are some of the people that have influenced you. What about some of the important or influential horses that have been in your life? Who are they? What were they like? Or are they like, and why were they influential?

Todd Flettrich: [00:16:25] One thing I did forget to say about the mentors. There were many others that inspired me, but those of my first three, as a young rider that encouraged me and mentored me and inspired me. My first FEI horse was an Andalusian named Argentino. He was trained by Nuno Olivera, and it was owned by Diana Christiansen and Diana had an accident on him. And she had a little bit of a fear from him and he was not a nasty horse or anything. He was actually a wonderful horse. It was just a bad accident incident. [00:17:00] And I finished training him.

He was going like third level and I finished him had brought him to the FEI young riders. Happened to be dead last the very first year, but then the next year I came back again on a different horse named Arion, which I had also finished, finished to the young rider level. Arion was a Hanoverian cross bred by Lynn and Karen Hurley.

Lynn happened to be very, I was living in Pennsylvania at the very one of the foundation starters of Devon horse show, but I finished her daughter was riding Arion, and doing about third level, So I finished him to the young rider level and brought him to the young riders. The very first year I competed, he met the young riders,

I won the consolation test, and then the next year I came back and won the whole young riders with him. He was a wonderful young rider horse. And then from there I had, I did ride a horse that a lady Ann Coffee bred for me. And it was a son of Orpheus, [00:18:00] Jessica's Olympic horse. And we bred him, and I trained him from the three years old on up to grand Prix.

And he was a wonderful horse, son of Orpheus. And I competed him only had one year to compete at the Grand Prix level. Unfortunately, he had to have some surgeries that kept him from really competing to big time level. Retired him, and then moved on to others that I had.

But the next most memorable horse was Amadeus and Amadeus was a coming seven-year-old that Cherry Knoll Farm bought for me to compete. And he was, like fourth in the young horse championships. We got him coming seven year old and I did the first year after that we did Prix St. George, I1 and then went on the following year to Grand Prix.

Amadeus was a wonderful horse. He was lovely [00:19:00] to ride very sensitive. Some outstanding movements he could perform. His special talent was his pirouttes and his changes. But then Amadeus, got injured, unfortunately after his third or fourth grand Prix in his stall.

So we tried to bring him back. He never came. And then we, I went to Europe, Cherry Knoll Farm was willing to help support me on another horse too. We were looking for something young, but we came across Otto. Otto was raised in Louisiana, owned by Louisiana person and trained by Heather Blitz, and I was friends with Heather.

And Heather encouraged me to purchase him because he was being sold out from under her, and she said, he's really a phenomenal horse. And she talked me into riding him and I asked Margaret if it was something that we could do, because it would get me back into the grand Prix arena. And she said, yes. So we bought him literally as a kind of [00:20:00] a horse just to get me back in the arena.

And then he ended up being the most wonderful, most talented horse I've had. And the most successful I've had. Otto went to the World Equestrian games. He competed on the U S team for Aachen twice. And I miss him he, he's still alive up at the farm in Pennsylvania, but I miss him daily. He was a phenomenal horse.

And I thank Heather, and Margaret for giving me that opportunity,

Stephanie Ruff: [00:20:27] I was going to ask you about Otto and if he was enjoying his retirement,

Todd Flettrich: [00:20:32] He doesn't look the same, but he does when I'm in the barn, and he does knicker at me. He does remember me.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:20:40] What is your favorite part of dressage and the sport and what do you find the most challenging?

Todd Flettrich: [00:20:51] My favorite part of the sport is it's beautiful to watch. That, and I love the relationship between the horse and the rider.

And [00:21:00] it's also something that you never stopped developing, whether you have a new horse or someone shows you're. It's a journey and you got to love that journey because you never stop learning hopefully. And again, you had different horses that might have different issues.

So it's the developing process, the journey I love too. The most challenging part is again, you never stopped developing. And I feel that every horse can do dressage, the French word, meaning training, but not every horse can do dressage like Otto. I had several 10s at piaffe at Aachen with him.

He was a wonderful horse. So the challenging part is once you've been there is to try to stay there in the big arena. And I don't think I have to be in the big arena to still enjoy dressage, but I did love that part of it. I do love that part of it. Is being in the main arena and competing at the highest level.

And it costs a lot of [00:22:00] money and it takes a lot of hard work it's sometimes can be very emotional. Horses get injured. Riders, get injured. Those things. So it's a very expensive sport.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:22:12] And speaking of getting injured, you've experienced that firsthand. And you said you broke your back. How did that happen?

Todd Flettrich: [00:22:20] It was a very silly on my part. I was riding a young horse that had a wonderful temperament, a wonderful temperament, but very large, just under 18 hands. And I had a long rein, and I was walking in the arena. I had just finished working and a bird flew out in front of her face, and she shook her head and turned, and she got her hind foot caught in the dressage arena.

And that panicked her. And so she started bucking. Took off bucking, and I had no reins. And so she threw me literally, and I'm a, not a small person, [00:23:00] I'm over her and onto the ground. I landed on my back. I broke two vertebras and I actually got up off the ground, dusted myself off and was more worried about her.

I walked over to catch her and then shortly after I couldn't, I was in severe pain. I did not. I thought I just had just, he was in shock and I thought that was just the, it's not a concussion, but the wind knocked out of me, there you go. I screamed to the barn because I couldn't walk any further.

I was in so much severe pain, so they, my barn manager of Cherry Knoll Farm rushed me to the hospital, and I had a procedure done where they put concrete in the vertebras. You had to stay awake for the procedure, and it was very painful. But interestingly enough I went back two weeks later for a checkup and the doctor says how's your riding going?

I said, riding? I said I was in such pain still. And he says you're not going to hurt your back. [00:24:00] I go yeah, but I'm in pain. Cause of the rest of the body was still in pain from the accident. He says don't worry about riding about hurting that part of your back cause it's concrete.

It's the only part that's not going to break if you fall down again. But it took me, I was in pain for quite a while. I started back up swimming not swimming, excuse me, in the water, walking in the pool. Cause it was hard to walk. And again, it was more like all the nerve endings were just in a bruising and everything.

And then I started working out at the gym and then I got on a quiet horse of my students as a quieter horse that I got on first. It's very comfortable, but I felt stiff as a board. I felt just uncomfortable. I couldn't relax. It took a little while for that to happen, but I was back in the saddle riding again. So it was. Not a very nice experience, but we've overcome it.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:24:50] How long was it before you started riding again?

Todd Flettrich: [00:24:57] Six weeks. And I didn't really ride, I [00:25:00] just, how about I just got on a horse, but it's six weeks and it took me probably. More like two and a half months to really start to ride. I just had so much aches and pains after that because you think about it then when they put the concrete and everything else, all your other vertebrates move down or they move.

So there was the nerve endings were moved. Yeah.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:25:26] How did that affect your mental state when you started riding again?

Todd Flettrich: [00:25:30] I must say, I had a little more respect for horses. When one would act up, I wasn't as comfortable. Like it wasn't riding my best.

I was a little uncomfortable when they would, one would make me spook a little bit and back before this accident, it wouldn't have bothered me at all, but it did bother me. I really was concerned. I didn't want to fall off again. I did not want to fall off again. So I totally understand when people develop fear that way. So it took a while for that to go away.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:25:59] So then [00:26:00] after your broken back, then you had a heart attack. How far apart were these two events?

Todd Flettrich: [00:26:06] Two years. And I had just coming home from Europe and was actually in good physical condition. I was running and exercising and trying to be fit.

But we had a horrible trip home. It was a long trip, 40 hours on the road. And I was a little pale when I got home and I thought it was just cause it was cold over in Germany and everything. And I was having some little cramps and things like that. And there was a little bit clammy at times.

And so I hadn't, I actually had my heart attack on Sunday morning, my mother's birthday March 22nd. And I was in bed and it actually woke up with a cramp and my other, my right arm had nothing to do with the heart attack, but it startled me and they think that they're being startled. Call it [00:27:00] reactive that the heart attack reacted.

And I actually called the barn and said, I think I'm going to be a little bit late. I don't feel so well. It was just a little nauseous, a little clammy. And I thought, I just, I woke up too fast or something. Like I was a little dizzy from that. Went and rode six horses, give us a Sunday, came home, was going to meet friends in the city to have dinner.

And then I Said that to my friends. I said, would you mind maybe not going to dinner and bringing me to the hospital? I think because I got home and I showered and then I was really dizzy. Got to the hospital, and they, I said that I wasn't right and described some of the symptoms. And they said we'll do an EKG.

They did EKG, came back and said, good news. You're not having a heart attack, but we're going to take some blood and things and research a little bit more, cause you're not right. They come back about 20 minutes later, half an hour, we were correct. You're not having a heart attack. You had a heart attack earlier today and thank [00:28:00] goodness you came in because you could have had a stroke.

And the doctor was going out of his shift. They were changing hands for the doctors in the ER. And he said, I'll stay into your procedure. So he did put a stint in my one of my arteries and so I had a heart attack. That was my story of my heart attack.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:28:20] How did you come back from that? How long were you out of the saddle that time?

Todd Flettrich: [00:28:25] Unfortunately it was about a month. And not because I didn't have permission to ride again. I was having issues with all the medication they would put me on. So I don't take medications very well. So they had me on nine different drugs, and I had an upset stomach.

I didn't feel good. And then it took a little while when I started to ride again, I say I was actually very fit before I had the heart attack. And I was out of wind. I couldn't get enough air. I was nauseous. And then I really could only ride my horses, then I would go home and I would have to rest a [00:29:00] little bit.

Cause I didn't feel well. And that took several months. And then I actually, a life saver was I went to my cardiologist after a checkup and I told him about the nausea and he changed my medication and had me take a probiotic, a very good probiotic and my life changed again. So I felt fairly normal again.

I still feel that my, when I work out and things, my respiration is not as good as it used to be. And also, it's fearful because anytime I get a little, my racing heart or something like that, or anything goes wrong, I think I get scared. You think you're going to have a heart attack again.

But and they think, by the way I was they feel now that it was. A blood disorder that I had too much iron in my blood and that can cause a heart attack.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:29:48] So these are two major physical events that have happened to you. How have they changed your general outlook on life?

And if so, how?

Todd Flettrich: [00:29:58] One thing I [00:30:00] know for sure is anything can happen at any time. And I don't take things as much for granted. I certainly, I think I love my horses even more. And the people that have stood by me all these years. I also changed my lifestyle a lot. And I maybe, For instance, I downsize on things.

I simplified my life. Let's just say that I started to simplify my life a little bit more just in case something else could happen. There's one thing I did want to say that it, it was about the influencing, the instructors and mentors influencing. Margaret Dupree is the owner of Cherry Knoll Farm and 23 years now.

She has been supportive of me and I also, and now our relationship is probably better than it's ever been. Actually she is my grounds person now, and she's very good at it. One because [00:31:00] she has a invested interest. The horse and me, and we've been working together for so many years.

She knows how I think. And she's willing, like I say, to make me fight for it. And it's I think it's a rare situation. I look forward to the future and I think that she certainly has influenced and made me who I am today.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:31:26] It's great to have somebody like that in your corner then.

Todd Flettrich: [00:31:29] Yeah. Absolutely.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:31:30] Absolutely. So the last question I have is one that I like to ask everyone just to get their own perspective on it. And it is what do you think makes a good horse person?

Todd Flettrich: [00:31:41] A good horse person loves and respects has respect for the horse, hardworking and dedicated. Also very open-minded.

And there's a difference between a good horse person and a good dressage person, dressage rider. Dressage riders must have humility and the ability to [00:32:00] enjoy the journey and not be discouraged with the small things that go wrong because you never know. Life happens. So for me, always having the ability to listen to your animals and to respect them is very important.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:32:21] Great. Okay. Todd, once again, I would like to thank you for taking some time out of your day today to chat with us. And I look forward to seeing you again soon.

Todd Flettrich: [00:32:32] Thank you very much, Stephanie.

Stephanie Ruff: [00:32:34] Thanks again to Todd for speaking with us today, and thanks also to Collegiate, our sponsor for this episode.

Thanks for listening to the dressage today Podcast. If you've missed any episodes or to subscribe, go to apple podcasts, SoundCloud, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, [00:33:00] please rate and review the show. Learn more and read in-depth training articles at dressagetoday.com or you can visit our subscription video site ondemand.dressagetoday.com. Be sure to give us a follow on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and Pinterest. Happy riding, and we'll see you at X.

The dressage today podcast is a production of the equine podcast network, an entity of equine network, LLC.

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